“The Greatest We Might Do,” by Thi Bui
“The Magic Fish,” by Trung Le Nguyen
“Household Fashion: Reminiscences of an American from Vietnam,” by Thien Pham
“My Vietnam, Your Vietnam,” by Christina Vo and Nghia M. Vo
Episode Transcript
This can be a computer-generated transcript. Whereas our group has reviewed it, there could also be errors.
Ki Sung : Welcome to the MindShift Podcast the place we discover the future of studying and how we elevate our youngsters. I’m Ki Sung. This month marks 50 years since the fall of Saigon, the finish of the Vietnam Battle. And whereas the Vietnamese-American neighborhood right here has flourished and grown, their illustration in youngsters’s books is catching up with the inhabitants. In at this time’s episode, we’ll hear from youngsters’s e book illustrator Minnie Phan, who illustrated the e book, Simone. The story of Simone is about in California and brings to life some of the selections a younger lady is pressured to make when evacuating her dwelling as a result of of a wildfire. Minnie Phan illustrated the e book, however the textual content of the story was written by Pulitzer Prize-winning writer Viet Thanh Nguyen.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan, welcome to Thoughts Shift. Inform us about your e book, Simone, and what impressed you to inform this story.
Minnie Phan: Hello, it’s so nice to be right here. I’m thrilled. It’s an honor. And Simone really got here from 2020 throughout a really intense time for I believe everybody throughout the globe the place particularly particularly in the Bay Space the place we had not simply the pandemic however the wildfires as nicely. In order I’m processing and and going via the motions I used to be leaning into myself as an grownup I used to be main into what I’ve all the time which was drawing and portray and writing. And I assumed, what are children doing? And I had a sense children had been doing the very same factor. They had been drawing and writing and recording, reflecting. And so I wrote a brief e book about wildfires and this expertise of this little lady who’s attempting to know the world via her sketchbook. I pitched it to my agent and she mentioned, I like the artwork, however the story is someplace, it’s not fairly there but. Do you wanna work with a author? in, you recognize, I assume I’ve obtained guts as a result of I out of the blue mentioned, I do know a author and I instructed, I instructed Viet Thanh Nguyen who I met 10 years in the past and he’s one of my literary heroes and I used to be there at the launch of The Sympathizer earlier than it received the Pulitzer and I adopted his profession for nearly a decade over and I simply all the time knew that at some point I wished to work with him. So when this chance got here up, I mentioned, attempt to ask Viet. And I bear in mind earlier than any editors or publishers or any contracts, something occurred, Viet obtained the e-mail from his agent about my challenge and Viet mentioned, name me. So I name him, I pitch him this wordless storybook, this phrase much less storyboard. And, I swear in that second, I assumed, I bombed, I blew it, he’s by no means gonna work with me. After which 20 minutes later, I obtained an e-mail and he mentioned, Okay, let’s go.
Ki Sung: Congrats on touchdown such a giant fish.
Minnie Phan: My household’s from a fishing village, so I’ve obtained it in my bones.
Ki Sung: Superior.
Minnie Phan: So, I typically pitch the e book as a younger lady going through intergenerational… experiences with local weather change. However Viet typically says, I believe it’s extra a couple of younger lady and the energy of artwork and how artwork is used to attach with herself and different individuals. As a result of the e book is extra than simply about this terrifying hearth that threatens her dwelling. It’s about how she’s capable of join with different people who find themselves going via comparable experiences by saying, hey, draw with me, inform me your story. Let’s draw your own home. What does it seem like? Do you wish to go dwelling? What does your private home seem like?
Ki Sung: I do love that distinction possibly between the children’ expertise versus the adults as a result of there may be one web page the place adults are utilizing huge phrases that youngsters could have seen. However that is actually about processing occasions that occur in children’ lives that could be out of their management.
Minnie Phan: Completely, for positive. I imply, I’m enthusiastic about, can I’m going into my favourite youngsters’s e book?
Ki Sung: Completely.
Minnie Phan: Okay. I’m take into consideration once I was a child, I really didn’t learn very a lot. My dad and mom are like many Vietnamese immigrants, refugees from Vietnam, particularly central Vietnam. And I bear in mind I didn’t actually have very many avenues for for communication, connection, understanding, however there was one e book that I bear in mind so clearly. I’m gonna learn the title. Alexander and the Horrible, Horrible, No Good, Very Unhealthy Day. And I bear in mind, so clearly, choosing up this e book and saying, that is how I really feel on a very dangerous day. That is how really feel. And it didn’t matter, actually, what occurred that day, but it surely was that I may join and determine what was occurring. And that was as a result of of an image e book. You realize, my dad and mom and I… We didn’t have a really robust shared language. I moved loads as a child in the Bay Space. I used to be born in Stockton, however went to 5 elementary faculties throughout the Bay Space. So I didn’t have loads of secure connections, however I all the time had books, drawing, writing, and sketchbooks.
Ki Sung: To be sincere, that is inspiring to me as a result of I believe there are loads of educators who do educate college students who’ve struggles speaking with their dad and mom, who possibly are the translator for his or her household, translating essential paperwork, who transfer from place to put, don’t ever actually really feel settled. So that is actually nice to listen to your reflection in your private expertise and assist different children entry that as nicely via this e book.
Minnie Phan: Completely. Illustration is important to my work, of course, however actually, I believe the core of why I do what I do is to attach with my inside baby, which I believe all of us have inside. And I believe, the nearer you’re to your inside baby the higher you’ll be able to make media and artwork for youngsters, since you actually perceive the expertise. Being a child is each joyful and lovely and thrilling and enjoyable, of trigger, however I believe adults underplay, underappreciate the deep. emotions that youngsters have, the deep means that youngsters are succesful of. Not many individuals undergo rising up in a refugee immigrant household. It’s a lonely expertise, and it’s scary. However I did it, and so many hundreds of thousands of different have. And I believe that’s additionally why we want artwork in the Vietnamese diaspora, as a result of it captures this expertise that’s actually distinctive and particular. And I may go into my journey.
Ki Sung : Yeah, let’s hear it. I do know you simply obtained again from a giant journey to Japan and Korea, is that proper? And some years in the past you had additionally gone to Vietnam. Are you able to speak about your travels?
Minnie Phan: Okay, yeah, that is huge, we’re gonna get into it. So, I discussed I’ve moved loads as a child, 5 elementary faculties. I really ended up going to highschool in Pleasanton and I struggled loads in highschool. I virtually didn’t graduate, I had a horrible GPA and I used to be simply in the improper crowd. However my artwork trainer actually noticed one thing in me and he believed in me. Shout out to Mr. Doyle at Newbie Valley Excessive, He’s phenomenal. modified my life. He actually confirmed me what artwork may do and I discovered ardour and which means and path and so I utilized to artwork college my senior yr and I obtained a full-ride scholarship to California Faculty of the Arts. And I bear in mind it broke my dad and mom coronary heart. They had been so upset they couldn’t imagine it even when it was a full- trip scholarship to a non-public artwork college. They felt that I used to be selecting starvation in a approach the place They didn’t select starvation. It was pressured upon them. My dad and mom grew up in central Vietnam in a small village in a province known as Quang Thi, which I’m so sorry to the Vietnamese individuals listening. I do know my Vietnamese shouldn’t be good, however that’s okay. However they’re from a small fishing village. And my mom needed to drop out of college when she was in third grade. My father, when he was in fifth grade, as a result of they had been surviving a famine, warfare. They’ve misplaced family members. Starvation was not an choice. It was a actuality. And so once I selected artwork college, all they may see was she’s selecting a tough life. However they didn’t perceive at that second that what I used to be selecting was to inform our tales, was to heal so many of the intergenerational wounds or a minimum of try to heal via a refrain of artists’ voices, the wounds that the Vietnamese diaspora throughout the globe has. And it has been a good looking journey. I believe my life wouldn’t be what it’s if I didn’t go to artwork college. Once I was a junior at CCA, I received a scholarship that was no strings hooked up cash. I may do something, pay tuition, get artwork provides. And I made a decision to go to Vietnam for the first time on my own. Three weeks, I had no thought what I used to be doing. I’d by no means been on a airplane alone earlier than and I’d ever been to a rural place, a creating nation, I’ve by no means met so many members of the family. However I needed to, I’ve to as a result of my dad and mom actually simply wished to carry us up economically in a secure place the place we didn’t have to fret about. illness, warfare, et cetera. However I wished to know, who am I? Who’re we? How will we get right here? Why are we right here? And there’s so many issues that we didn’t study at school, in highschool, et cetera. So I needed to actually, I believe I wished to be courageous and do onerous issues. And that have modified my life. I used to be 21 and I met so many variety family. Individuals had been so candy and I noticed wealth inequality and poverty at a scale I’d by no means skilled earlier than. However I additionally noticed love and pleasure and affection in a approach that solely a village, a real village may present. And in addition, The expertise humanized my dad and mom as a result of my dad and mom had been so upset about my option to go to artwork college. However once I went to Vietnam, I used to be staying at the dwelling of my dad and mom, my mom’s childhood dwelling, and I out of the blue may see, I may out of the blue see her little child ft working via the sand. And I bear in mind this elder came visiting the home and she had misplaced her sight and she really had raised my mom when my grandmother had died. And this lady, she lifts her palms and she touches my face and she goes, I do know who that is. That is Tay’s daughter. I do know her. And so then I out of the blue had this chance to ask, what was my mom like when she was a woman? What was she like when was little? There have been out of the blue so many avenues and I wanted that therapeutic. And I believe I couldn’t make it via or be there at that place if I weren’t an artist, seeing the world via an artist’s lens. I used to be there to bear witness to the lives of the individuals round me and additionally my very own life. It actually modified me going again to Vietnam. I got here again and I believe I held much more forgiveness and understanding and love for my dad and mom and my household finest they may do.
Ki Sung: I do know teenage years are onerous for everyone, however once you’re in a position to take a look at the longer arc of a relationship, these moments of restoration, proper, of therapeutic will be so helpful in the long term. So I’m glad you had that have. And the artwork that you simply make can also be how individuals can recall and course of their experiences. So that you’re imprinting your message on to. children and adults as nicely after they undergo the hardship and take into consideration how one can get better from that.
Minnie Phan: Hmm. Yeah, it’s fascinating. Truly, I believe the going so enthusiastic about the image e book area as particularly about range and illustration. I Suppose the most profitable books are the ones that seize The kid expertise or the expertise of a person in that second I’ve seen a number of instructions in the picturebook Group that’s about range or various image books one is the author therapeutic a trauma, the actually particular issues that they want that they had seen after they had been a child. They usually need this e book to exist as a result of it’s essential. And it’s like, if this e book exists now, my youthful baby self can have it. And I believe there are additionally different books the place it’s particularly about the expertise of the child. I additionally illustrated a e book known as The Yellow Aoi with Han Bui. And the Aoi, that’s… Al-Yai. Al-yai. OK. And that e book was about one other metaphor for intergenerational connection a couple of younger lady who finds her mom’s al-yaj and dances in it and then tears it, and she feels so dangerous. However a vital half of that e book is forgiveness. I believe that’s half of the therapeutic that I believe children wish to hear, prefer it’s OK to make errors. It’s OK. And so I believe these are the tales that I actually, actually join with.
Ki Sung: Yeah, and breaking one thing of your dad and mom or tearing one thing that’s all the time terrifying as a child. Positively. Okay, so what books are you able to suggest that function Vietnamese American characters?
Minnie Phan: Oh, there’s so many. I actually love the e book Needs. I imagine that one’s by Monty. And I additionally I like, I cherished The Greatest We Might Do by Tee Bui. It’s been my North star. I really met Tee when she was nonetheless engaged on it and I used to be there at the launch of her e book and it’s simply been so lovely seeing the reception to her graphic novel. And in addition I really feel like we’re in a I’m in a sance proper now. I see artistic energy, cultural energy, constructing in the Vietnamese neighborhood. And I find it irresistible, I like. And Viet talks about this typically, narrative plentitude, for us to have many, many voices and to finally transcend the ache and trauma of warfare, which of course is important and essential and have to be honored. However for us, to maneuver ahead as people and as a neighborhood, we now have to see past the heartache, the ache and see the potential, the pleasure, the future. And a lot of our future is in our younger individuals who get to have so many alternatives that we and our dad and mom didn’t get to have, however they get proper this second. Another books you wish to suggest? Yeah. Oh, let’s see. There’s the Magic Fish, which is about popping out and being queer. There’s Household Fashion about meals. Oh, there’s an amazing, actually fascinating e book known as My Vietnam, Your Vietnam by Christina Vo, or Vo. And it’s It’s advised, that is really possibly extra of an grownup e book, but it surely’s her perspective of residing in Vietnam and her father’s expertise of residing in Vietnam. So it’s each of their experiences residing overseas and the e book finally converges in the middle the place they meet. It’s very fascinating. It’s like a twin memoir. Oh, you recognize what? I wanna give a giant shout out. I wanna to present a shout out UN, UNFAM, UNfam. So once I graduated artwork college, I used to be model new to the discipline. I had no examples of Vietnamese individuals in the arts. And I used to be searching spectator books in Oakland at some point and I picked up this e book and I simply cherished the artwork. It was watercolors. It was playful. It was cute. And it was simply so good. I imagine it was Vampirina Ballerina. however I picked it up and I out of the blue noticed the title and it was a Vietnamese title, the final title Pham. And it was such a good looking, inspiring second the place I bear in mind saying, if she will be able to do it, I can do. And truly I had this lovely full circle second the place I used to be on stage along with her final yr at the Viet Guide Fest, offered by Vala. And I obtained to inform her the story and it was simply lovely that she was a trailblazer. She’s a Vietnamese American illustrator and author making it occur. If my 18 yr outdated self may see her and simply know that despite the fact that my neighborhood has no thought what I’m pursuing, it’s potential. I will be an artist. And I hope whoever’s listening to this, it actually doesn’t quit telling their story, making artwork, being artistic. And should you see your little, should you your little making artwork and being artistic, let that flourish. It’s gonna present up in so many alternative methods.
Ki Sung: These are nice suggestions. I hope that extra children and dad and mom learn these books. I hope they see themselves in the tales and additionally embody what provides them pleasure. And at all ages, artwork is that, and it may possibly unlock so many different experiences, very similar to what you might have realized all through your profession. So thanks, Minnie Phan, for being right here with us on Thoughts Shift.
Minnie Phan: Thanks a lot.
Ki Sung: Minnie Phan is a youngsters’s e book illustrator who not too long ago revealed Simone with Viet Thanh Nguyen, and she’s a author and artist based mostly in Oakland. We’ll deliver you extra concepts and improvements from consultants in schooling and past. Hit observe in your favourite podcast app so that you don’t miss a factor. The MindShift group contains me, Ki Sung, Nima Gobier, Marlena Jackson-Retondo, and Marnette Federis. Our editor is Chris Hamburg. Seth Samuel is our sound designer. Further assist from Jen Chien, Katie Springer, Maha Sanad, and Holly Kernan. MindShift is supported partly by the generosity of the William and Flora Hewlett Basis and members of KQED. Thanks a lot for listening.
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